Reliable tracking of opt-outs and hard-bounces

[Compuware]

Need a repeatable & reliable way to capture all opt-outs and hard-bounces. There is currently no clear filter critieria that can be used to identify those who previously may have bounced or opted-out vs. those that are currently opted-out and hard-bounced outside of exporting the bounces and unsubscribes data from the Email section to create a Static List which is not substainable. There should be a way to pull this into a smart list and/or a contact setting that can be referenced. Would like to know when sending my email I have the cleanest list possible prior to hitting send.

[Compuware]

Please see this update: https://community.hubspot.com/t5/HubSpot-Ideas/Creating-A-Smart-List-for-Hard-Bounced-and-Unsubscribes/idc-p/338167/highlight/true#M56761

We just introduced two new contact properties that solve this. 

[Compuware]

@KeyWestScott that's certainly one way to say it.

I find it simpler to think of the Emails Bounced property as a way to see the number of bounces associated with an email address.

The static list created from the dashboard is what we advise should be used for cleanup. It is a snapshot of the contacts who are ineligible for future email due to bounces.

[Compuware]

@Compuware is right again. The Emails bounced contact property has always been just that. A count of the number of emails that bounced to the email address. It increments each time a bounce occurs and does not decrement with the contact being unbounced. It also increments for soft bounces, which is another reason it should not be used to identify contacts for deletion. It was not designed to be a yes/no answer to the question is this contact currently eligible to be sent email.

A dynamic yes/no such as this was attempted years ago and it proved to be a disaster; frankly, it caused more confusion than it solved for. It was promptly rolled back. This most recent change allows users to see a static list of their hard bounced contacts (not including contacts that are unbounced) over a certain time frame. We will not be offering this as a dynamic property at this time due to the load it weighs on available bandwidth for our users.

[Compuware]

Hello everyone!

You can now easily create a static list of all hard bounced contacts directly from the email dashboard. Please see the following Knowledge Base article for the steps how to do this: https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/contacts/how-can-i-delete-contacts-who-have-unsubscribed-or-hard-bounce

You can also stipulate the specific bounce categories you wish to populate the list and the timeframe where the bounce occurred. This should increase visibility into hard bounce data for HubSpot users trying to clean up their portals of hard bounced contacts.

Side note regarding unsubscribes, to create a smart list of all unsubscribed contacts use the property Unsubscribed from all email as Compuware suggested above.

[Compuware]

You can now create a list of hard bounced contacts directly from the Email Dashboard:

This should help customers working though active clean ups and provide greater visibility into permanently bounced contacts.

[Compuware]

The export now has options to include deleted contacts or not; and allows the user to specify any combination of unsubbed, hard bounced and spam reports.

There will no longer be a need to filter this export outside of hubspot. Simply check the group of contacts you want to isolate and open the CSV sent to your inbox.

[Compuware]

@marketingman83, my sincerest apologies for that UX. I want you and the others on this thread to know that we hear you. We understand it is important to understand the segment of active contacts within your database that will end up in the Not Sent category through HubSpot, and this will be easier sometime in the near future.

Thank you for your patience.

[Compuware]

The most automatic, despite being technically difficult, way to get this information is by using the Email Events API to GET the status of an email address: http://developers.hubspot.com/docs/methods/email/get_status

If the bounced parameter is true, the contact is hard bounced.

The Emails Bounced property is not a representation of currently ineligible contacts (contacts in 'Not Sent') for a multitude of reasons:

• The Emails Bounced property will not increment for global bounces. However, we will put the contact in the Not Sent category if it is globally bounced.
• The Emails Bounced property will increment for soft bounces, but soft bounces will not put a contact in the Not Sent category.
• The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is updated, however, we will attempt to send to that contact again if the contact's email address is updated.
• The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is unbounced, either by Support or in-app.
• We put contacts in the Not Sent category without ever sending them an email if there is no MX record set up at their domain. The lack of an MX record shows that the domain can not send or receive email, and therefore we do not have to attempt to send the email to know that it will not deliver. These contacts will end up in Not Sent but their Emails Bounced will be 0.

Use this workaround for creating a list of ineligible (hard bounced) contacts if you can not use the API:

https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-addresses

[Compuware]

Hi folks, our public API is one way to get this information: https://developers.hubspot.com/docs/methods/email/get_status

if ...

"bounced":true,<code></code>

then the contact is hard bounced.

Until there is a better solution it is important to know the "Emails Bounced" property is not a representation of currently ineligible contacts (contacts in 'Not Sent') for a multitude of reasons:
* The Emails Bounced property will not increment for global bounces. However, we will put the contact in the Not Sent category if it is globally bounced. An email becomes globally bounced if we received a permanent error when emailing that address in the past. Permanent errors in this case are bounce messages that indicate if an inbox has been disabled, or if there is a typo in the address).
* The Emails Bounced property will increment for soft bounces. They increment the Emails Bounced property but they will not put a contact in the Not Sent category.
* The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is updated, however, we will attempt to send to that contact again if the contact's email address is updated.

* The Emails Bounced property will not reset to zero if the contact is unbounced, by Support, or in-app.
* We put contacts in the Not Sent category without ever sending them an email if there is no MX record set up at their domain. The lack of an MX record shows that the domain can not send or receive email, and therefore we do not have to attempt to send the email to know that it will not deliver. These contacts will end up in Not Sent but their Emails Bounced will be 0.

Use this workaround for creating a list of ineligible (hard bounced) contacts if the using the API is not an option:
https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-addresses

[ndwilliams3]

@Compuware

You can create a smart list of bounced contacts. While it doesn't differentiate between soft and hard bounces, it may work for your needs. When creating a list, select the contact property filter and chose emails bounced is known.

Also, Hubspot automatically excludes contacts previously hard bounced when sending emails. 

[Compuware]

Thanks for the info we currently have a smart list filtering with the knowns. However, it is becoming a big unmanageable due to hard bounces that we have unbounced so now rather than known is has to filter for those that were previously known but now are labeled with "1" or "2", etc. Same applies with opt-outs. While they were previously "known" and opt back in they're opt-out field like the bounce field now has another value.

[inespimentel]

@ndwilliams3 While it's useful Hubspot doesn't send to hard bounced, it would also be useful to have visibility over them when building lists (for example if a list has 6000 contacts but 3000 of them hard bounced) - before sending emails. Is this possible somehow? (same for opt-outs)

[GmidD]

We definitely need better tracking of hard bounces. Our sales people use Salesforce and we sync all of our data, but there is no Hubspot field we can use to tag contacts as BOUNCED in Salesforce so our sales people know which of their contacts may not be receiving our messages. We've currently tried sending bounce reports out to them, but the server messages can be confusing unless you know what you're looking at. And, like someone else mentioned above, the "Bounced Emails" field can't reliably be used because it doesn't reset when contacts are unbounced.

[amyT]

It would be great if there was an easy way to build a smart list of only contacts who have hard-bounced and are not eligible to recieve email. Currently, it doesn't look like there is a way to use list filters to create such a list.

My company just started using SalesForce and half of the information they imported is junk. It would be very beneficial if I could supply a list of hard-bounced email addresses back to SalesForce administrators to help them clean up the mess and on the flip receive much cleaner lists to do campaigns with from them in the beginning.

[kbento]

Completely agree.  With HubSpot using a pay-per-lead model, it's really frustrating to find that there isn't a robust system for handing hard-bounces.

We manage a pretty popular marketing blog with tons of content and get a fair share of "no@no.com" emails which, because there's no automated way to handle these fake contacts, we pay for montly.

Please fix this HubSpot.  This solution doesn't scale.

[kbento]

Copied from a similar topic:

Completely agree.  With HubSpot using a pay-per-lead model, it's really frustrating to find that there isn't a robust system for handing hard-bounces.

We manage a pretty popular marketing blog with tons of content and get a fair share of "no@no.com" emails which, because there's no automated way to handle these fake contacts, we pay for them montly.

Please fix this HubSpot.  This solution doesn't scale.

[spanishgringo]

 Totally agree we need this

[MayPascaud]

Hi @spanishgringo, @kbento : I am just commenting to let you know that I have merged the previous idea that you had commented on ("New HubSpot property for contacts that have hard-bounced?") with this current idea, which was posted before and had more votes. This was done in order to increase the idea's visibility, and thus make its implementation more likely. Please add any additional information that you might find useful in the comments!

[AntheaStrezze]

I found this article on a workaround - but it really should just be a property we can use to filter smart lists!

https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-add...

[Compuware]

Thanks. I noted this article as well and while we have done this process in the past it's manual. We should not have to export and then reimport prior to every mailing we do. I also find it interesting that we have to "validate" upon import that these people are Email Opt-In.

[paxton]

Hi folks, our public API is one way to get this information: https://developers.hubspot.com/docs/methods/email/get_status

if ...

"bounced":true,<code></code>

then the contact is hard bounced.

Until there is a better solution it is important to know the "Emails Bounced" property is not a representation of currently ineligible contacts (contacts in 'Not Sent') for a multitude of reasons:
* The Emails Bounced property will not increment for global bounces. However, we will put the contact in the Not Sent category if it is globally bounced. An email becomes globally bounced if we received a permanent error when emailing that address in the past. Permanent errors in this case are bounce messages that indicate if an inbox has been disabled, or if there is a typo in the address).
* The Emails Bounced property will increment for soft bounces. They increment the Emails Bounced property but they will not put a contact in the Not Sent category.
* The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is updated, however, we will attempt to send to that contact again if the contact's email address is updated.

* The Emails Bounced property will not reset to zero if the contact is unbounced, by Support, or in-app.
* We put contacts in the Not Sent category without ever sending them an email if there is no MX record set up at their domain. The lack of an MX record shows that the domain can not send or receive email, and therefore we do not have to attempt to send the email to know that it will not deliver. These contacts will end up in Not Sent but their Emails Bounced will be 0.

Use this workaround for creating a list of ineligible (hard bounced) contacts if the using the API is not an option:
https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-add...

[paxton]

The most automatic, despite being technically difficult, way to get this information is by using the Email Events API to GET the status of an email address: http://developers.hubspot.com/docs/methods/email/get_status

If the bounced parameter is true, the contact is hard bounced.

The Emails Bounced property is not a representation of currently ineligible contacts (contacts in 'Not Sent') for a multitude of reasons:

• The Emails Bounced property will not increment for global bounces. However, we will put the contact in the Not Sent category if it is globally bounced.
• The Emails Bounced property will increment for soft bounces, but soft bounces will not put a contact in the Not Sent category.
• The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is updated, however, we will attempt to send to that contact again if the contact's email address is updated.
• The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is unbounced, either by Support or in-app.
• We put contacts in the Not Sent category without ever sending them an email if there is no MX record set up at their domain. The lack of an MX record shows that the domain can not send or receive email, and therefore we do not have to attempt to send the email to know that it will not deliver. These contacts will end up in Not Sent but their Emails Bounced will be 0.

Use this workaround for creating a list of ineligible (hard bounced) contacts if you can not use the API:

https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-add...

[marketingman83]

Agree 100% with Compuware.

We also need a way to build smart lists in Hubspot for those who are flagged as hard bounced/global bounced, ideally from a Contact Property. For a variety of reasons. Reps in Salesforce need to see who's bounced. It would help us suppress people from workflows. It would help us flag and suppress people in SF from call campaigns.

Manually exporting/importing is an unacceptable workaround for us due to the additional overhead that places on our team to keep a bounced-list up to date, and we don't have the bandwidth for developing a solution that uses the API.

And also fully agree on Compuware's note about forcing us to validate people are opt-in when we are just trying to add a list of contacts that already exist in HS to a static list. A function that builds a list based on a csv file of emails-only, matching against emails already in SF, would be extremely useful for static-list management.

Coming from Mailchimp, I'm used to having access to both these types of features, which made our lives easier for list management.

[LetíciaOliveira]

 Totally agree we need this II

[EMSAdmin]

Completely agree that we need a reliable way to track bounced emails. We need this as a field under a contact so we can get this information over to SalesForce. I know HubSpot already has a field under the contact record called "Emails Bounced" but this is a historical field - so if an email is bounced and then we unbounce the email, this field will not reset. We try to segregate our lists the best we can by eliminating unsubscribes, etc but the manually process of exporting bounces does not work for us.

[IatricET]

Hi Everyone - Prior to HubSpot, we used Marketo, and Marketo had a flag for global bounces.  I don't understand why HubSpot cannot create this flag as a property for us to use in other places (for example, in smart lists, and/or as a field that can be imported into other systems).  We use SalesForce.com as our CRM, and we'd like the fact that a record has globally bounced in HubSpot to appear somewhere on that record in SalesForce.com.

We don't think this an unreasonable request, and here's why: 

• Some piece of code in HubSpot’s program triggers the status on a record to change to Contact has bounced globally (see this screenshot to see the HubSpot field I'm referencing - https://www.screencast.com/t/8R8LN8Hq ). 
• That same code should be able to trigger a property in HubSpot that we can use on smart lists, and it should be able to trigger a message to change a field in SFDC (for example, a custom field like “Email invalid in HubSpot”).

 I agree that it's very frustrating to find that HubSpot has no way to automatically manage global bounces, especially when other less sophisticated systems (like Marketo) do. 

[vbijay]

Wow. We are migrating from Pardot and I'm surprised at this feature doesnt come out-of-the-box in hubspot.

It's going to be a problem if we need to use APIs to know who is what (w.r.to hard bounce vs. unsubscribe status). Knowing who has opted out vs. who is bouncing is crucial for undertaking appropriate actions. This must be a high priority item.

[evancnorman]

 This seems like such a basic thing to have inside a system. I can't believe I'm being referred here to comment and agree and upvote this.