Reliable tracking of opt-outs and hard-bounces

[Compuware]

Need a repeatable & reliable way to capture all opt-outs and hard-bounces. There is currently no clear filter critieria that can be used to identify those who previously may have bounced or opted-out vs. those that are currently opted-out and hard-bounced outside of exporting the bounces and unsubscribes data from the Email section to create a Static List which is not substainable. There should be a way to pull this into a smart list and/or a contact setting that can be referenced. Would like to know when sending my email I have the cleanest list possible prior to hitting send.

[Compuware]

Please see this update: https://community.hubspot.com/t5/HubSpot-Ideas/Creating-A-Smart-List-for-Hard-Bounced-and-Unsubscribes/idc-p/338167/highlight/true#M56761

We just introduced two new contact properties that solve this. 

[Compuware]

@KeyWestScott that's certainly one way to say it.

I find it simpler to think of the Emails Bounced property as a way to see the number of bounces associated with an email address.

The static list created from the dashboard is what we advise should be used for cleanup. It is a snapshot of the contacts who are ineligible for future email due to bounces.

[Compuware]

@Compuware is right again. The Emails bounced contact property has always been just that. A count of the number of emails that bounced to the email address. It increments each time a bounce occurs and does not decrement with the contact being unbounced. It also increments for soft bounces, which is another reason it should not be used to identify contacts for deletion. It was not designed to be a yes/no answer to the question is this contact currently eligible to be sent email.

A dynamic yes/no such as this was attempted years ago and it proved to be a disaster; frankly, it caused more confusion than it solved for. It was promptly rolled back. This most recent change allows users to see a static list of their hard bounced contacts (not including contacts that are unbounced) over a certain time frame. We will not be offering this as a dynamic property at this time due to the load it weighs on available bandwidth for our users.

[Compuware]

Hello everyone!

You can now easily create a static list of all hard bounced contacts directly from the email dashboard. Please see the following Knowledge Base article for the steps how to do this: https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/contacts/how-can-i-delete-contacts-who-have-unsubscribed-or-hard-bounce

You can also stipulate the specific bounce categories you wish to populate the list and the timeframe where the bounce occurred. This should increase visibility into hard bounce data for HubSpot users trying to clean up their portals of hard bounced contacts.

Side note regarding unsubscribes, to create a smart list of all unsubscribed contacts use the property Unsubscribed from all email as Compuware suggested above.

[Compuware]

You can now create a list of hard bounced contacts directly from the Email Dashboard:

This should help customers working though active clean ups and provide greater visibility into permanently bounced contacts.

[Compuware]

The export now has options to include deleted contacts or not; and allows the user to specify any combination of unsubbed, hard bounced and spam reports.

There will no longer be a need to filter this export outside of hubspot. Simply check the group of contacts you want to isolate and open the CSV sent to your inbox.

[Compuware]

@marketingman83, my sincerest apologies for that UX. I want you and the others on this thread to know that we hear you. We understand it is important to understand the segment of active contacts within your database that will end up in the Not Sent category through HubSpot, and this will be easier sometime in the near future.

Thank you for your patience.

[Compuware]

The most automatic, despite being technically difficult, way to get this information is by using the Email Events API to GET the status of an email address: http://developers.hubspot.com/docs/methods/email/get_status

If the bounced parameter is true, the contact is hard bounced.

The Emails Bounced property is not a representation of currently ineligible contacts (contacts in 'Not Sent') for a multitude of reasons:

• The Emails Bounced property will not increment for global bounces. However, we will put the contact in the Not Sent category if it is globally bounced.
• The Emails Bounced property will increment for soft bounces, but soft bounces will not put a contact in the Not Sent category.
• The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is updated, however, we will attempt to send to that contact again if the contact's email address is updated.
• The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is unbounced, either by Support or in-app.
• We put contacts in the Not Sent category without ever sending them an email if there is no MX record set up at their domain. The lack of an MX record shows that the domain can not send or receive email, and therefore we do not have to attempt to send the email to know that it will not deliver. These contacts will end up in Not Sent but their Emails Bounced will be 0.

Use this workaround for creating a list of ineligible (hard bounced) contacts if you can not use the API:

https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-addresses

[Compuware]

Hi folks, our public API is one way to get this information: https://developers.hubspot.com/docs/methods/email/get_status

if ...

"bounced":true,<code></code>

then the contact is hard bounced.

Until there is a better solution it is important to know the "Emails Bounced" property is not a representation of currently ineligible contacts (contacts in 'Not Sent') for a multitude of reasons:
* The Emails Bounced property will not increment for global bounces. However, we will put the contact in the Not Sent category if it is globally bounced. An email becomes globally bounced if we received a permanent error when emailing that address in the past. Permanent errors in this case are bounce messages that indicate if an inbox has been disabled, or if there is a typo in the address).
* The Emails Bounced property will increment for soft bounces. They increment the Emails Bounced property but they will not put a contact in the Not Sent category.
* The Emails Bounced property will not reset to 0 if a contact's email address is updated, however, we will attempt to send to that contact again if the contact's email address is updated.

* The Emails Bounced property will not reset to zero if the contact is unbounced, by Support, or in-app.
* We put contacts in the Not Sent category without ever sending them an email if there is no MX record set up at their domain. The lack of an MX record shows that the domain can not send or receive email, and therefore we do not have to attempt to send the email to know that it will not deliver. These contacts will end up in Not Sent but their Emails Bounced will be 0.

Use this workaround for creating a list of ineligible (hard bounced) contacts if the using the API is not an option:
https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/email/how-do-i-create-a-list-of-bounced-email-addresses

[marketingman83]

@KeyWestScott  The Contact property is called "Opted out of all email". If you can't find it I'd recommend reaching out to support.

[KeyWestScott]

Interesting.  That's where I thought it would live.  But, I have all my subscription types listed, but no option for "all email". 

Will call.

Thanks, again!

Scott

[Compuware]

Hi Scott 

1. 

2. search under "opt" 

or from the contact screen on the left look for the field

[Compuware]

Scott to create a smart list for all unsubscribes under the contact info select "unsubcribe from all"

[paxton]

Hello everyone!

You can now easily create a static list of all hard bounced contacts directly from the email dashboard. Please see the following Knowledge Base article for the steps how to do this: https://knowledge.hubspot.com/articles/kcs_article/contacts/how-can-i-delete-contacts-who-have-unsub...

You can also stipulate the specific bounce categories you wish to populate the list and the timeframe where the bounce occurred. This should increase visibility into hard bounce data for HubSpot users trying to clean up their portals of hard bounced contacts.

Side note regarding unsubscribes, to create a smart list of all unsubscribed contacts use the property Unsubscribed from all email as Compuware suggested above.

[EMSAdmin]

This really needs to be a dynamic list. You are adding more work for us if we have to create this list everytime we want to exclude them from a list. If you create a field for hard bounces, we obviously can add that filter to a list.

[pgonzalez]

I second this concept as well as making Hard Bounces and global opt-outs fields available in workflows. Having a dymanic lists for filtering or workflows for automation. The main reason to purchase HS Marketing is to avoid manual work. 

It would also be nice to have a count of hard or soft bounces by date range to unsubscribe those that bounce more that X times within a given date range

[Compuware]

As I previously mentioned. While the hard bounce field is available it is not reliable in instances where a person may have previously been noted as a hard bounced but then the email address verified and the hard bounce removed. The bounce field is not reset to "null" "blank." The bounce is removed so you can continue to email to, however the bounce field is still populated with a "1" or "2", etc.  So you can't rely on this filter to accurately pull true hard bounces because in this instance you would be including the person you just removed the bounce from. 

[KeyWestScott]

@Compuware Wow..  What a major oops....... 

Scott

[paxton]

@Compuware is right again. The Emails bounced contact property has always been just that. A count of the number of emails that bounced to the email address. It increments each time a bounce occurs and does not decrement with the contact being unbounced. It also increments for soft bounces, which is another reason it should not be used to identify contacts for deletion. It was not designed to be a yes/no answer to the question is this contact currently eligible to be sent email.

A dynamic yes/no such as this was attempted years ago and it proved to be a disaster; frankly, it caused more confusion than it solved for. It was promptly rolled back. This most recent change allows users to see a static list of their hard bounced contacts (not including contacts that are unbounced) over a certain time frame. We will not be offering this as a dynamic property at this time due to the load it weighs on available bandwidth for our users.

[KeyWestScott]

So, @paxton since the option to show Bounced is really not a true bounced list, but a "quasi" bounced list of people that at one time or another for some reason or another may have bounced AND may or may not - no longer be bounced, but that can really be or not be valid contacts - list?

Scott

[paxton]

@KeyWestScott that's certainly one way to say it.

I find it simpler to think of the Emails Bounced property as a way to see the number of bounces associated with an email address.

The static list created from the dashboard is what we advise should be used for cleanup. It is a snapshot of the contacts who are ineligible for future email due to bounces.

[cbartlett]

This is definitely an improvement but what about being able to map to your CRM? Thats why I need this to be as a contact field. If the contacts email address is currently globally or hard bounced, this should be able to be mapped to a Salesforce field so the Sales team doesn't then try to email themselves. It should be available as field so you can map it. And if the email is changed, it updates that field. 

[jaleonard19]

Please see this update: https://community.hubspot.com/t5/HubSpot-Ideas/Creating-A-Smart-List-for-Hard-Bounced-and-Unsubscrib...

We just introduced two new contact properties that solve this.