GDPR

DWXFX
Teilnehmer/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

We are new to Hubspot and trying to design our lead nurturing workflows. We have two aims with the design:

a) to know what is working and what is not
b) to keep things organised and agile

Whether there is a tradeoff involved, I'm not sure. Answers to initial questions on onboarding calls suggest it is better to have many small workflows.

However here is the thing. We have 5 personas and offer our product in 4 languages and
from the point someone provides an email to the point they generate revenue, there are 4 separate funnel progression stages. Assuming that there are 4 emails per funnel progression stage, that would mean:

I) Number of emails = 5*4*4*4 = 320
II) Number of workflows = 5*4*4 = 80

(and this ignores internal workflows, emails etc).

I was wondering about two options

- using Smart Content linked to buyer personas in emails via CTA which would reduce emails by a factor of 5
- using branches linked to language which would reduce workflows by a factor of 4

However, I'm not sure if this is a good solution. I'm worried that I won't be able to drill down and compare performance across persona or language (i've seen in the documentation that Hubspot recommend workflow branches for things like "mini-goals" with no mention of segmentation which is effectively what I am proposing).

Any recommendations as to what would be best way to structure things to maintain agility and still be able to drill down into performance?

Separately, would be great if there was some sort of folder classification system of tagging for workflows, or at very least being able to add a detailed description of the workflow. Pretty worried that if we don't configure this right from the get-go, it could be chaos.


0 Upvotes
1 Akzeptierte Lösung
MFrankJohnson
Lösung
Vordenker/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Every once in a while, someone takes the extra time to articulate a question so clearly that an abundance of information can be communicated in the exchange. Sorta like going from the days of 9600bps modems to 100Mbps internet connections.

Thanks for that.

 

Q: Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

 

Short A: There are no short answers to this multi-faceted question, but will try to be brief.

 

Longer A: The HubSpot Workflow Butterfly EffectThe HubSpot Workflow Butterfly Effect

Keeping in mind the two primary goals: 1) ease of testing (because there's simply no other way to know what works and what doesn't) and 2) agility, we have to agree with the core HubSpot recommendation of "many small workflows". Would also like to add, "relatively simple" and "well documented" to the criteria. Here's why.

 

As you begin building out your workflows and discover their awesome power you may experience a sometimes overwhelming temptation to put everything in there (including the kitchen sink). You may even have dreams of calling it something like your 'Master Workflow' (or worse) 'Master Workflow 01' which implies there's gonna be more 'masters'. haha The choice here is to either resist temptation or to embrace the chaos you so aptly anticipated and thereby creating what we've come to know as 'The HubSpot Workflow Butterfly Effect'.

 

The framing of your question suggests an organized mind capable of reverse-engineering complex solutions, so consider ...

 

You will have MANY workflows with varying degrees of complexity. Some (maybe even many) will interact with and/or depend on the successful completion of other workflows. This simply can't be avoided in even a tiny HubSpot Marketing portal which fully utilizes the platform.

 

Since the HubSpot workflow management system -- an oxymoron -- is virtualy devoid of management capabilities (i.e., no folders), we like to repurpose HubSpot's awesome Campaigns tool to help group related workflows. This makes troubleshooting agile.
(see image)

hubspot-campaigns-zmfjlabs-do-not-add-assets.png

 

Examples:

_Top-Level Admin Workflows
- restricted to high-level, portal-wide processes that align with an organizations business strategy -- i.e., assignment of HubSpot ownership, (re)classification of Lifecycle stage, management of integration-specific custom properties, etc.

 

_Data Hygiene Workflows
- restricted to actions and notifications around housekeeping -- e.g., flaging contacts for review by a manager, flaging contacts containing bad data, flaging contacts for deletion, etc.


_INTERNAL NOTIFICATIONS
- restricted to internal notifications about the operation of the portal and other essential messages -- e.g., "Customer opted out of all emails", "Work begun with no NDA on file", etc.


Again, these are just baseline examples we use to organize portals and which encourage a blackbox approach to workflow building whenever possible. A good rule of thumb is to handle a specific task in a single workflow or group of workflows dedicated to the task. AKA: KISS theory.


Examples:

- Assign HubSpot Ownership in a single workflow or group of 'HubSpot Ownership Workflows' in the portal. This makes testing as relatively easy as possible and allows laser-like focus on a single task when issues inevitably arise.

- Flag records for deletion in a single workflow when possible. Makes testing a breeze. Makes troubleshooting even easier. (And no. There is no workflow command to auto-delete contacts! haha)


I say all of this to shed light on your proposed two options:

>>- using Smart Content linked to buyer personas in emails via CTA which would reduce emails by a factor of 5
True. However, it also increases complexity and risk of failure. Additionally, as you eleuded to earlier, it increases difficulty when analyzing performance -- always our focus.

 

Not to suggest that complexity scares us because we're fearless when it comes to dynamic content in both email AND on HubSpot pages. Just know that when comes time to make revisions, you're not gonna wanna have one of your interns handle this one unless you want your emails to end up in the news like the MIT guys! haha
- see MIT Shares Email Love With The Wrong Recipients

(disclaimer: We only love to pick on MIT because that's where Brian and Dharmesh met.)

 

>>- using branches linked to language which would reduce workflows by a factor of 4

Using excessive If/then branches in HubSpot workflows has the same effect as excessive {{ elseif }} statements in code -- they lead to unintended behavior and to errors. And, they're not scalable.

 

Right now you may think, "He11, we'll never serve more than 4 languages." Then the bean-counters tell us that we're leaving a 30% revenue boost on the table because we're not serving 3 additional languages. Now we're up to 7 languages. Do we just add 3 more if/then branches to our already if/then branch laden workflow?

 

We thinks not.

 

Also, if/when working with clients in different countries there are frequently additional country-specific actions that need to take place. Depending on the task(s), these are often best handled in their own country-specific / language-specific workflow. For example, if we break CTAs or Forms serving the US market we don't wanna interfere with our GDPR-compliant CTAs and Forms we just got approved by legal for the UK.

 

To sum it up, HubSpot Marketing is an awesomely powerful tool that's only getting more powerful as the orange Oompa Loompas add to the product line. Mastery takes considerable time and experience. (even for the smart people AT HubSpot)

 

If there were a 'short' or 'simple' answer here it would be to hire a HubSpot Marketing partner to help you both strategize and implement. It will save you much pain and dramatically reduce your risk.

 

Thanks again for a world-class question.

 

Note: Please search for recent posts as HubSpot evolves to be the #1 CRM platform of choice world-wide.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Be well,
Frank


www.mfrankjohnson.com

Lösung in ursprünglichem Beitrag anzeigen

7 Antworten
MFrankJohnson
Lösung
Vordenker/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Every once in a while, someone takes the extra time to articulate a question so clearly that an abundance of information can be communicated in the exchange. Sorta like going from the days of 9600bps modems to 100Mbps internet connections.

Thanks for that.

 

Q: Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

 

Short A: There are no short answers to this multi-faceted question, but will try to be brief.

 

Longer A: The HubSpot Workflow Butterfly EffectThe HubSpot Workflow Butterfly Effect

Keeping in mind the two primary goals: 1) ease of testing (because there's simply no other way to know what works and what doesn't) and 2) agility, we have to agree with the core HubSpot recommendation of "many small workflows". Would also like to add, "relatively simple" and "well documented" to the criteria. Here's why.

 

As you begin building out your workflows and discover their awesome power you may experience a sometimes overwhelming temptation to put everything in there (including the kitchen sink). You may even have dreams of calling it something like your 'Master Workflow' (or worse) 'Master Workflow 01' which implies there's gonna be more 'masters'. haha The choice here is to either resist temptation or to embrace the chaos you so aptly anticipated and thereby creating what we've come to know as 'The HubSpot Workflow Butterfly Effect'.

 

The framing of your question suggests an organized mind capable of reverse-engineering complex solutions, so consider ...

 

You will have MANY workflows with varying degrees of complexity. Some (maybe even many) will interact with and/or depend on the successful completion of other workflows. This simply can't be avoided in even a tiny HubSpot Marketing portal which fully utilizes the platform.

 

Since the HubSpot workflow management system -- an oxymoron -- is virtualy devoid of management capabilities (i.e., no folders), we like to repurpose HubSpot's awesome Campaigns tool to help group related workflows. This makes troubleshooting agile.
(see image)

hubspot-campaigns-zmfjlabs-do-not-add-assets.png

 

Examples:

_Top-Level Admin Workflows
- restricted to high-level, portal-wide processes that align with an organizations business strategy -- i.e., assignment of HubSpot ownership, (re)classification of Lifecycle stage, management of integration-specific custom properties, etc.

 

_Data Hygiene Workflows
- restricted to actions and notifications around housekeeping -- e.g., flaging contacts for review by a manager, flaging contacts containing bad data, flaging contacts for deletion, etc.


_INTERNAL NOTIFICATIONS
- restricted to internal notifications about the operation of the portal and other essential messages -- e.g., "Customer opted out of all emails", "Work begun with no NDA on file", etc.


Again, these are just baseline examples we use to organize portals and which encourage a blackbox approach to workflow building whenever possible. A good rule of thumb is to handle a specific task in a single workflow or group of workflows dedicated to the task. AKA: KISS theory.


Examples:

- Assign HubSpot Ownership in a single workflow or group of 'HubSpot Ownership Workflows' in the portal. This makes testing as relatively easy as possible and allows laser-like focus on a single task when issues inevitably arise.

- Flag records for deletion in a single workflow when possible. Makes testing a breeze. Makes troubleshooting even easier. (And no. There is no workflow command to auto-delete contacts! haha)


I say all of this to shed light on your proposed two options:

>>- using Smart Content linked to buyer personas in emails via CTA which would reduce emails by a factor of 5
True. However, it also increases complexity and risk of failure. Additionally, as you eleuded to earlier, it increases difficulty when analyzing performance -- always our focus.

 

Not to suggest that complexity scares us because we're fearless when it comes to dynamic content in both email AND on HubSpot pages. Just know that when comes time to make revisions, you're not gonna wanna have one of your interns handle this one unless you want your emails to end up in the news like the MIT guys! haha
- see MIT Shares Email Love With The Wrong Recipients

(disclaimer: We only love to pick on MIT because that's where Brian and Dharmesh met.)

 

>>- using branches linked to language which would reduce workflows by a factor of 4

Using excessive If/then branches in HubSpot workflows has the same effect as excessive {{ elseif }} statements in code -- they lead to unintended behavior and to errors. And, they're not scalable.

 

Right now you may think, "He11, we'll never serve more than 4 languages." Then the bean-counters tell us that we're leaving a 30% revenue boost on the table because we're not serving 3 additional languages. Now we're up to 7 languages. Do we just add 3 more if/then branches to our already if/then branch laden workflow?

 

We thinks not.

 

Also, if/when working with clients in different countries there are frequently additional country-specific actions that need to take place. Depending on the task(s), these are often best handled in their own country-specific / language-specific workflow. For example, if we break CTAs or Forms serving the US market we don't wanna interfere with our GDPR-compliant CTAs and Forms we just got approved by legal for the UK.

 

To sum it up, HubSpot Marketing is an awesomely powerful tool that's only getting more powerful as the orange Oompa Loompas add to the product line. Mastery takes considerable time and experience. (even for the smart people AT HubSpot)

 

If there were a 'short' or 'simple' answer here it would be to hire a HubSpot Marketing partner to help you both strategize and implement. It will save you much pain and dramatically reduce your risk.

 

Thanks again for a world-class question.

 

Note: Please search for recent posts as HubSpot evolves to be the #1 CRM platform of choice world-wide.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Be well,
Frank


www.mfrankjohnson.com
BenKarklins
Teilnehmer/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Hey Frank, 

 

Loved your response. I have one question; when you say you would opt to limit the amount of 'if/then' use in workflows determining actions based around languages and other scaling factors, would you create separate workflows for each language?

0 Upvotes
MFrankJohnson
Vordenker/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Thanks @BenKarklins,

 

Workflows by language? Yes, depending on the specific use case. However, there may be additional considerations that warrant an even more granular separation of workflows.

 

HubSpot Workflows: Language vs CountryHubSpot Workflows: Language vs CountryHow you decide to tactically implement your HubSpot workflows may (should) depend heavily on a workflow strategy consistent with your organizational goals. The following two examples briefly consider two multi-language use cases where the buyer persona of company 'A' is language-specific, but the buyer persona of company 'B' is country-specific.


Company A - (language-specific workflows):
Company A is US-based and sells transportation services internationally. Their solution is language-specific. This means, in countries with similar languages (and different dialects), Company A uses what they refer to as 'common language' to save lauguage translation costs for their webpages. As such, their HubSpot landing pages target common LANGUAGE (despite notable differences).


- English -- USA, Canada, and UK
- Spanish -- Spain, Mexico, Puerto Rico, and US-ES
- Portuguese -- Portugal and Brazil


This solution results in a language-specific workflow strategy that is country agnostic -- i.e., one HubSpot workflow for each LANGUAGE.


Company B - (country-specific workflows):
Company B is US-based and sells translated books internationally. Their solution is country-specific. This means, Company B offers translated books in the lauguage most commonly read by the country. As such, their HubSpot landing pages reflect the language variety specific to the target COUNTRY.


- USA -- English (American variety)
- UK -- English (British variety)
- Canada -- English (British variety)
- Spain -- Spanish
- Mexico -- Spanish (Mexican variety)
- Puerto Rico -- Spanish (Puerto Rican variety)
- Portugal -- Portuguese
- Brazil -- Portuguese (Brazilian variety)


This solution results in a country-specific workflow strategy -- i.e., one HubSpot workflow for each COUNTRY.


++
To my original point --
Now imagine a company that sells language translation services. Neither solution above may be appropriate for their specific use case and organizational goals. In fact, we'd expect their prevailing buyer persona to be BOTH language-specific AND country-specific.


Does that make sense?

 

Note: Please search for recent posts as HubSpot evolves to be the #1 CRM platform of choice world-wide.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Be well,
Frank


www.mfrankjohnson.com
Dedicated
Teilnehmer/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Hi Frank,

I was searching for info about how best to set up our workflows and came across this post. I've really appreciated your answers, and even more so, the depth of them.

 

Can I pose a question that is not exactly along the same line but in the same vein?

 

I want to know if portal speed is affected by the volume of workflows therein.

 

We have a LOT of workflows that are organized in different folders and are functioning as we expect. What is concerning me is that sometimes there are long delays before a workflow triggers or between workflow steps. I had asked support whether the volume of our workflows could be slowing down our portal's speed of workflow performance and the response I got was that it would be helpful to consolidate workflows where possible.

Here I see that the recommendation was to rather have more, shorter workflows that longer, more complicated ones. I am wondering exactly what to do to speed up our system's often occurring delays.

As an example, we have a few workflows that trigger when a newly created deal is associated with a company.

  • One set of 3 workflows is to get the company name on the deal name after renaming the deal to be more meaningful to us (using a workaround because HubSpot does not allow for copying a company property onto a deal property from within a deal workflow) Firstly, a deal-based workflow fires and puts a trigger onto the associated company. Secondly, a company-based workflow (that allows for re-enrollment on the company based trigger property) copies the company name into a property on all the associated deals. Finally, another deal-based workflow triggers for deals that now have a value in their company name property and that are marked as current deals, updating their deal name to have the company name property (that was copied to the deal in workflow #2) appended to the end of the deal's existing name. 
  • Another workflow adds a rollup value on the associated company record so that we can be sure of not creating a second company deal for certain pipelines.
  • Yet another marks the deal for testing purposes in future workflows, as well as putting the company ID of the first associated company onto the deal (again for testing purposes in case a deal is moved over to a different company by a random user and the wrong company now has the rollup marking of already having a deal etc. etc.)

 

Sometimes the workflows fire off in seconds and sometimes not. When all goes well, having 2 separate workflows shooting at the same time, means that the deal is updated simultaneously by both workflows within a second or two. To combine the workflows would mean that the second/third/fourth updating step in one merged workflow would only occur after 3 or 4 seconds on a good day, and after minutes on a bad one. I'm happy to go ahead and join multiple workflows into one larger one with many more steps (where feasible) if that really WILL make a difference in the workflow triggering/running speed, due to the lesser amount of workflows that need to be dealt with by the system. Your comment "we have to agree with the core HubSpot recommendation of 'many small workflows'" in this post seems to insinuate that it may not be the best course of action to merge workflows meeting different purposes into one longer and more complex one. Can you clarify as to exactly how the volume of workflows affects the operating speed of our portal?

 

Also, do you know whether API calls used more frequently in conjunction with workflows would speed up HubSpot performance or slow it down? (Case in point would be the workflows that add the company name to the end of a current deal's Deal Name property. Here there are 3 workflows firing in order to work around HubSpot workflow limitations. This same thing could be done with an API call from a webhook in one workflow step.) Using the API means there is much less detailed HubSpot history to use for troubleshooting, but if it would make our system's workflows fire more quickly, on a more consistent basis, it would be worth the history loss.

 

How would you advise us to proceed?

 

Thanks very much!

0 Upvotes
BenKarklins
Teilnehmer/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Awesome! Thanks for that, Frank. You've made me rethink my strategy a little 🙂

DWXFX
Teilnehmer/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Thank you Frank for taking the time to write such a detailed reply.

Sounds like am better off making sure stuff is organised properly outside of HubSpot and keeping things as granular as possible within HubSpot. Had hoped to avoid cumbersome naming conventions and having workflow descriptions external to the system, but hey, here's hoping this will be improved upon further down the line.

Cheers.

MFrankJohnson
Vordenker/-in

Optimal workflow design for multiple buyer personas and languages

lösung

Hey DWXFX just going through old posts and realized this was never marked as solved. Please accept the solution so other searchers can find it quickly.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Best,

Frank

 

Note: Please search for recent posts as HubSpot evolves to be the #1 CRM platform of choice world-wide.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Be well,
Frank


www.mfrankjohnson.com
0 Upvotes