Double opt-in and workflows

[matttunney]

Hi,

Can someone provide details of how the double opt-in process affects workflows?

An example workflow might be:

1. User fills out form on landing page
2. User added to a contact list
3. User receives thank you email with download link
4. Stakeholder send notification of the email open
5. Stakeholder sent notification of download

I'm interested if the double opt-in settings will interfer with that set-up at all, or if it will dynamically 'slot-in' to the workflow process based on the users opt-in status.

It seems as though the workflow scenario for a user that has not opted in would be something like:

1. User fills out form on landing page
2. User recieves an opt in email confirmation
3. User clicks on opt in email link
4. email link opens confirmation page
5. optionally - user recieves a confirmation email
6. User added to a contact list
7. User receives thank you email with download link
8. Stakeholder send notification of the email open
9. Stakeholder sent notification of download

 The worry with the confirmation landing page (step 4) is that it may break any intended user journey.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Phil_Vallender]

Hi @matttunney

Good question. This is not entirely clear from the documentation (How to set up double opt-in) but I would assume that if a contact had not completed the opt-in confirmation at the time of any external email action (follow-up email or workflow send) the email would be dropped. Internal notification emails should not be affected. 

Perhaps @edjusten can confirm if I am correct. 

Hope this helps.

[edjusten]

Hi @matttunney  Great question. A new contact will automatically be added to a workflow regardless of opt-out status. However, they won't be sent an email unless they confirm they want to receive emails from you.

In the case of a form with a follow-up email (not a workflow follow-up) the message won't be sent until the contact confirms.

In the case of an email sent as part of a workflow, the  workflow will wait the desired delay time, then check to see if the contact is confirmed. If the contact has yet to confirm, the message will not be sent, and the contact will continue through the workflow. The workflow history will reflect that the message wasn't sent due to opt-in status.    

This should be rare though. With the upcoming transition to GDPR compliance, privacy awareness among the general population is high, so most users will have some sense that filling out a form will result in a follow up email.  

Does this answer your question? 

Thank you,

Ed Justen

cc @Phil_Vallender

[VanyNaura]

Hi,

I'm facing the same issue about double opt-in and workflows. 

So there are two sides of issue here:

1. I need to set double opt-in to make sure that contacts that interact on my website is a real one with valid email. I set the double opt-in for every pages except the Contact Page for consultation.

2. Apparently, new contacts that filled form on my content offer (outside Contact Page) don't confirm their email so no email can be sent to them and the workflow keeps going with no emails sent. This happened not only one or two contacts but by average, new contacts don't click or even open the opt-in confirmation email.

Any idea or help what should I do to overcome this?

Thank you!

[johanvdc]

Hi,

2/ You can’t. The system will not send emails if the confirmation mail is not clicked.

What you can do:

• communicate clearly on your Thank You Page (“You’ll be receiving a confirmation mail first. Click that first, and then you’ll get your ebook”)
• do the same with your confirmation mail (create urgency in your subject line)
• (optional:) resend a manual opt-in mail

What HubSpot should do:

• have reminder sequence for double opt-in mail
• have several email versions for double opt-in (one email for all is quite challenging)

While we are at it. The current double opt-in setup does not take into account:

• manual entry of contacts (e.g. through the CRM) that have given a verbal agreement to receive mails (you'll have to import them to get them double opt-in'ed ...)
• CRM synchronisation of contacts (e.g. through SalesForce) that have given a verbal agreement to receive mails
• synchronization of contact through 3rd parties like Eventbrite, GoToWebinar, … : how do you get these contacts double opt-in?

Any other suggestions?

[matttunney]

Interestingly double opt-in is only a requirement in Germany.

I found this out whilst watching a webinar on GDPR from sendgrid - at around 45mins the question is raised about double opt in.

https://go.sendgrid.com/Webcast-GDPR-Webcast_On-Demand-GDPR.html

[johanvdc]

I do share your concern. It does break the journey.

People are expecting the mail-with-download immediately, not a confirmation mail. And not confirming means ... no download means ... bad experience and not a lead you can follow up in a regular way.

[Phil_Vallender]

Hi @johanvdc

I agee with you. 

I personally do not think that double-opt is particularly good for the lead or the company. I would avoid using it if possible. 

[matttunney]

@Phil_VallenderI agree, I don't think there is any ideal solution especially when GDPR is concerned. At least with double opt-in the leads actions are timestamped against the 'email confirmation status' field.

Saying all that tackling GDPR compliance for lead gen is far from easy with the current set up in hubspot.

[johanvdc]

Double opt-in make sense for registration of a newsletter, not/less for a one-off action like a download of an ebook (which you could follow up with a registration/double opt-in). With HS today - that is not possible today. Should be on the roadmap ...

[Phil_Vallender]

Hi @matttunney

I wondered if this was related to GDPR. 

I'm no expert and I can not give legal advice but I think GDPR is a joke. 

If we all go around and follow the guidance of getting affirmative, unambiguous, specific consent from all new and existing leads, then our email marketing is dead along with our businesses. Recent studies consistently find email marketing the most effective B2B lead gen channel. 

But lo, recital 47 states that direct marketing for commercial gain may be basis for legitimate interest. However, they leave 'may' in there so that we can never be sure. Nice. 

We've spoken to multiple experts and lawyers about this, most recently at an IOD event, and nobody actually knows what GDPR compliance looks like. 

I'm all for sensitive use of email data, and I'm speaking from the point of view of having generated all leads the inbound way, i.e. never having bought data. 

[ChristianRieck]

Dear HubSpotters, 

we have integrated Eventbrite to our HubSpot platform. When someone fills out a form on Eventbrite, the leads are synced with HubSpot. 

The question ist, how could we create a process to get the Double opt in of the leads?

a) Eventbrite offers the possibility to send DOI Mails - but how could we sync the information that someone clicks the DOI to HubSpot

b) Create a follow up Workflow in HubSpot when someone registeres for an Event. But, I can not find the DOI mail in our workflow tool and if I insert the DOI mail in an marketing-email of course this email would not go through. 

Could be the same with Go to Webinar?

Any ideas to solve that?

Thank you, 

Christian

[AllisonZ]

Hello dear HubSpot Community,

I stumbled across this Community Post and wanted to share an Ideas Forum post with you that relates to this topic:

• Double Opt-in Enrollment Feature for Workflows

I propose that there should be a DOI activation/deactivation switch for workflows, as to not have to set additional enrollment triggers for each and every workflow sending marketing emails to contacts. The current setup is not user-friendly or instinctive and there is room for improvement.

Let me know if you have any questions!

All the best,

Allison 

(Customer Onboarding, Berlin)