CRM

Eunisis
Participant

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hello,

 

Just last week I uncovered what I thought were valid emails coming from my Squarepsace website for several months, were actually bogus emails that are somehow getting into my Hubspot account (found out by contacting some users after they started marking them as spam).  Turns out when it's a bogus email, both the first name and last name both get populated in the First Name Field in Hubspot, and the Last Name field in Hubspot (for the longest time and up until last week I thought they were valid and one of the systems was sending information incorrectly and that's what I had been troubleshooting).   Squarespace technical support pointed me to Hubspot as they said it isn't happening on their end.  I have had a confirmation email set-up on Squarespace this entire time that is supposed to prevent this from happening (see all attached screenshots...the last one is from my Squarespace website).  So how is Hubspot allowing all these bogus emails to be populated in my Contacts List that ultimately led to Hubspot suspending my marketing email functionaltiy without any warnings that has left me as a small business owner completely in the lurch?

 

Before I had time to contact Hubspot about this problem, Hubspot suspended my marketing email functionaltiy without any warnings last evening and I am beside myself as I have a newsletter due out on Monday and I thought I had everything set-up correctly to prevent a bunch of spam issues (outside of my website I won't even add someone's name to my distribution list in Hubspot unless they attended one of my events or gave me permission via a conversation) , I don't even understand how this could have happened, and now Hubspot is basically saying, "sorry, you have to go to a competitor if you want to use marketing email services".  This has been an extremely stressful, horrible experience with Hubspot.

Example of Bogus Email populating in my Hubspot Account Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 3.33.23 PM.pngPicture of Non Hubspot Forms Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 3.31.54 PM.pngSign-Up form on my Website Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 3.34.42 PM.pngConfirm Subscription Email after someone Signs Up Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 3.36.42 PM.pngScreen after User Confirms Subscription Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 3.37.24 PM.png

 

 

0 Upvotes
9 Replies 9
Eunisis
Participant

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @MiaSrebrnjak,

 

Thank you for jumping in and I agree it's spam though it doesn't look like it in Hubspot which is why it took me so long to identify this...I'm struggling with how it's happening.  And why is Hubspot double populating first name and last name into both fields in the Hubspot contact record?  The "reports from other Squarespace users" link you included says "Not found The requested URL was not found on this server" when I click on it?  I'm also unsure what originating source in the table you provided, to look for to confirm it's spam or if you were trying to communicate something else with this information?  When I click on the bogus contacts, the originating source all says "Direct traffic" with Source Drill Down as my business website.  

In the Hubspot knowledge article you referenced, where does it warn users this means you may get non-valid contacts in your Hubspot account that are spam?  It seems like that's WAY more important to warn users of given Hubspot is so incredibly strict on it's spam reports than the warning currently in the knowledge article which is "this can lead to multiple partial submissions. For example, if a visitor attempts submits the form without filling a required field, they would need to enter the required information and submit again. In HubSpot, both submissions would be collected, one partial and one complete."

Your statement on "Anything that happens after that (like email validation or double opt-in confirmation), would have to be either managed in HubSpot (native DOI functionality and communication subscriptions) or synced over from Squarespace (via an integration)" doesn't work.  I already had Zapier set-up for the integration and this issue was still happening.  Or was it not working because I had the Hubspot tracking code installed on my site as well?

I didn't realize Hubspot was taking the contact before the email confirmation had been clicked.  Had I understood that, I would have been checking their validation status in Squarespace...if that is something I can even do, am unsure.  And yes I'm already well aware of Hubspot's strictness...the hard way.  It's very hard to be understanding when the user experience was so poor.  I already have another post open asking why Hubspot gave zero warnings I was about to get my services cut off.  No one has answered this question yet.  Nor is it clear to me the chances the suspension will be removed if I upgrade to paid services?  I use plenty of other free services (e.g. Zapier) and it was MUCH easier to resolve issues with them than it has been with Hubspot.  Nor have I encountered a company so blatantly pushing customers to competitors (i.e. the only reason I was using Hubspot was its email marketing services).  

 

0 Upvotes
MiaSrebrnjak
Community Manager
Community Manager

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @Eunisis,

 

Thank you for checking the originating source of those contacts in your HubSpot account. With your business website being the original source, we can confirm that the contact data was submitted via a form. As HubSpot only collects the data from non-HubSpot forms and doesn't change or validate it, this means that the form and the contact data was populated this way - with double first and last names - by malicious bot activity. The fact that other Squarespace users also reported the same behaviour confirms that it is not HubSpot that is double-populating the data, but the bots. 

 

Thank you for your feedback regarding this Knowledge base article. I've submitted it to our internal team for review. Hopefully, they can add additional information and guidelines soon. 

 

Regarding the email validation status of the contacts: I'm not familiar with Squarespace & Zapier, but if your Zap is set up that way that only confirmed contacts are sent to HubSpot, removing the tracking code and relying on Zapier to only send confirmed contacts to HubSpot is a good idea. You could, however, also leave the tracking code installed and manually remove unconfirmed contacts from HubSpot. 

 

We, of course, do not wish to push users to a competitor, but I wanted to give helpful advice based on the current status of your account. We are glad that you enjoyed our marketing tool and we regret that it got locked, but we cannot offer remediation options for free accounts due to the resources this process requires. With a paid subscription, you have access to support and you are able to appeal the suspension. An upgrade, however, doesn't guarantee that the tool will get unlocked; this depends on the measures taken in your HubSpot account to prevent further spam reports and bounces and the decision of our deliverability team. 

We have asked the deliverability team for more information about your account and the fact that you haven't received a warning before the suspension: your account unfortunately exceeded acceptable spam complaint limits. Unlike suspensions caused by bounces, spam complaints are harder for HubSpot to predict, as a spam report is an action taken by a contact.  This means that users suspended for exceeding acceptable spam complaint limits may not receive a warning before the suspension occurs. Again, this mechanism is in place to protect the deliverability of emails of all our users. 

I hope this answers your questions. Thank you!

 

Mia, Community Team 

 

 


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0 Upvotes
Eunisis
Participant

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @MiaSrebrnjak,

 

You're welcome, I wish the first Community Manager would have provided the information you did so it didn't take four different messages on my part for Hubspot to identify the root cause is a malicious bot (this is in addition to my two different attempts with Hubspot Sales as well...so six attempts total on my part for Hubspot to identify root cause...that's a lot of effort for a user to make).  Is this really the kind of user experience Hubspot wants users to have?

 

Can you please provide a link that works for the "reports from other Squarespace users" link you tried to share with me earlier so I can learn from that post?  Per my previous message, the link you had shared before doesn't work when I click on it.

 

You're welcome on identifying the major gap in the Hubspot knowledge article that contributed to this issue and providing the feedback.  I'm glad it will help other users even though Hubspot won't help me with returning email marketing functionality to me.

 

What happens if I take this recommendation, remove the Hubspot tracking code, set-up the Zap that way and it still doesn't work?  Reply to this thread and let you know?  I'm also confused why Hubspot isn't building an integration that takes the confirmed contact after the user has confirmed they want the subscription via the confirmation email Squarespace sends them.  If Hubspot is so concerned about spam, the way Hubspot is currently using it's tracking code for non-Hubspot forms is misaligned with this concern given Hubspot is taking malicious bot sign-ups and populating them into user's Hubspot accounts.  A product design that would be aligned with this spam concern, is Hubspot only takes the contact information after the Squarespace email confirmation.

 

Unfortunately all of Hubspot's behavor in the forums with me and on the Sales calls has been pushing me to a competitor as the only reason I was using Hubspot was the email marketing functionality.  So advice on other Hubspot tools (e.g. contacts) doesn't help.  If Hubspot is going to be so strict on not granting access back to the email marketing tools even though no warnings were given to me and Hubspot had a major gap in their knowledge article that contributed to this happening, the result is Hubspot is going to drive me to a competitor.  Even with your message, I'm still unclear what my chances are the suspension will be removed if I upgrade to paid services?

 

Regarding the no warning on my account on the spam threshold, thank you for asking the deliverability team about this and from what I can see in my account there were ample opportunities for Hubspot to provide a warning yet never did (happy to chat offline 1x1 and provide this evidence) so what the product team just recently responded with on my other Hubspot forum thread doesn't make sense from a user perspective.

 

Thank you in advance for the additional clarifications, all the best, stay well, and happy holidays

0 Upvotes
MiaSrebrnjak
Community Manager
Community Manager

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @Eunisis,

 

I apologize for the late reply. Here is the link to the Squarespace forum from my first response: 

Screenshot 2021-12-21 at 11.02.20.png

 

If you'll encounter problems with the Zapier intergration, feel free to ask the HubSpot or the Zapier Communities for advice. 

A native Squarespace integration currently isn't on our product roadmap, but it would be great to add this as a product idea in our Ideas forum. The HubSpot Ideas Forum is a place for HubSpot users to discuss feature requests with each other and the HubSpot Product Team. You can check the Ideas Forum Users' Guide here

 

Regarding the email suspension: if a user has access to HubSpot Support, the next step is to submit an appeal, as described in this article. The upgrade itself doesn't guarantee that the email marketing tool will get unlocked, the final decision lies with the Email Deliverability Team. They can restore access to the tool if all recommended measures have been taken. 

 

Thank you for your understanding. 

Best wishes for a wonderful Holiday and a Happy New Year!

 

Mia

 


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0 Upvotes
MiaSrebrnjak
Community Manager
Community Manager

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @Eunisis,

 

I wanted to chime in here: 

this is most likely form spam - I found reports from other Squarespace users who describe similar behaviour. This happens when spambots crawl the web looking for ways to share unsolicited content. They look for email addresses, forums, and contact or newsletter forms. So, if you have a form block on your site, there's a chance you'll receive spam. The spammy form submissions can include legitimate email addresses that have been scraped from websites or exposed in data leaks, which would explain why the people you have contacted said they never filled out your form. To check where the unsolicited contact entries originate from, go to a spam contact's property overview (contact record > click on Actions in the top left corner > View all properties) and search for the Original source and Source drill-down 1 properties

Screenshot 2021-12-10 at 12.19.00.png

 

 

When using 2 separate systems to collect and manage contact data, it is advisable to be extra careful about data integration and data hygene. Because you're using a 3rd party form and email confirmation service, this means the information about contacts and their double opt-in (DOI) email status that you have set up to validate email addresses lives primarily in Squarespace. As my colleague mentioned in her reply and as documented in this Knowledge base article, installing the HubSpot tracking code (in the context of form submissions) only ensures that non-HubSpot form submissions are collected whenever a visitor clicks the submit button. Anything that happens after that (like email validation or double opt-in confirmation), would have to be either managed in HubSpot (native DOI functionality and communication subscriptions) or synced over from Squarespace (via an integration or updating the opt-in data in HubSpot manually). 

Alternatively, using HubSpot forms and the native spam prevention & notice and consent  features (single opt-in) or the DOI functionality ensures that all contact data is up-to-date and managed centrally in HubSpot. 

 

It seems that you have sent marketing emails to your contacts in HubSpot without checking or syncing their email validation status from Squarespace, which resulted in excessive hard bounces, unsubscribes, or spam reports, and the suspension of the email marketing tool in your HubSpot account. We take email deliverability very seriously and have rigorous deliverability protection systems in place to ensure good email deliverability rates: if excessive hard bounces, unsubscribes, or spam reports are detected, the email campaign is stopped and the email tool gets suspended. With a free CRM account, you unfortunately cannot appeal the suspension. Our customers can work with support and a dedicated email deliverability expert to appeal the suspension - this process can involve measures like validating email addresses you want to send emails to (with a vendor like Kickbox) or providing proof that an email has been marked as spam by mistake. Considering the fact that your email confirmation data lives in Squarespace and that you are not able to use our email tool, it might be best to use Squarespace's email marketing service going forward. You can, however, continue to use the other tools in your HubSpot account. Thank you for your understanding.

 

Mia, Community team


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Eunisis
Participant

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @natsumimori ,

 

How is Hubspot's behavior aligned with being sorry for my experience?  In other words, where is the amends for what has happened to me?  

Moving on, I'm sorry, this explanation doesn't make any sense, you're saying over 150 poeple over several months all filled out first name and last name fields this way in my form?  In just two days, I've already uncovered another business owner this is happening to in their Hubspot account.  To further clarify, the emails that are coming into my Hubpsot account, where first name and last name are both populating in first name field and last name fields in Hubspot, are valid email addresses.  However, they are NOT people who signed up for my newsletter on my website (they confirmed this with me when I emailed them).  Which further confirms your explanation isn't what's happening here.  

Secondly, I already said above I have had a feature on my Squarespace form this whole time for the user to confirm they want to sign-up via a separate confirmation email.  So once again I ask, how is Hubspot allowing this to happen in my account as Hubspot shouldn't be taking a contact from Squarespace until the user has confirmed they want to receive my emails per the Squarespace confirmation email feature that is already on the newsletter form on my site?

 

A very frustrated, disappointed user,

Eunisis

0 Upvotes
natsumimori
Community Manager
Community Manager

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @Eunisis ,

 

I understand that you have more than 150 contact records where their full name is in both first name property and last name property. That's indeed odd, and In that case, my guess is that there could be issue with property mapping. (Mapping non-HubSpot form fields and HubSpot properties)

 

And I understand that you did use Squarespace feature to get confirmation from contacts whether or not they'd like to receive emails from you. How did you collect this information (email opt in) into HubSpot from your Squarespace cofirmation email? Because my understanding so far is that you use Squarespace form (non-HubSpot form) and Squarespace confirmation email, and I'm unsure if this information was successfully populated in corresponding contact records in HubSpot. Would you mind sharing this?

 

When using a non-HubSpot form, what HubSpot does is collecting the submissions and trying to map the information with HubSpot properties. To my knowledge, when someone clicks on "submit" button it will create a contact record in HubSpot (or update the existing records) and HubSpot doesn't verify whether or not this person has agreed to receive emails. There are properties that hold contact's opt out status, but being opted out doesn't stop HubSpot to create a contact record. (Email information in Contact properties)

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Eunisis
Participant

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @natsumimori ,

 

There is no issue with property mapping that I am aware of.  As I have already said, when it actually is a person signing up on my website, the mapping comes into my Hubspot account just fine.  I'm struggling to follow some what you're asking me, are you asking how is the contact getting from Squarespace to Hubspot?  If yes, honestly I set this up over a year ago and I'm struggling to remember how I did this.  I think I followed these instructions though am unsure...https://knowledge.hubspot.com/forms/use-non-hubspot-forms.  I remember installing some code on my site...most likely the hubspot tracking code referred to in this knowledge form.

 

So you're saying even though Hubspot recommends users have a confirmation email set-up on their website to avoid spam, Hubspot doesn't have functionality to only take the contact from Squarespace once users have confirmed their subscription?  This seems at odds with Hubspot's desire to have customers avoiding spamming their distribution lists.  Also, if this is what's happening, why would Hubspot populate first name and last name twice in each name field for these particular contacts....this doesn't seem to make sense?  And again, these are users who never submitted their information on my site.

 

 

0 Upvotes
natsumimori
Community Manager
Community Manager

How is Hubspot allowing these bogus emails to get into my Hubspot Account?

Hi @Eunisis ,

 

Firstly, we're sorry to hear that you have had a frustrating experience with our product.

 

Based on what you described, I tried to find out what could potentially happened with your form. 

If this contact was created via your form, it means that this person filled in their full name in both first name property and last name property. Because I'm not aware of any native HubSpot feature that does this when the email address is fake, so I'd assume they did so by themselves.

 

I can see that your forms are non-HubSpot form. In this case, HubSpot will collect the form submissions whenever a visitor clicks the submit button and create contact records accordingly. Unfortunately there's not a way for HubSpot to detect if the email address is fake or real because it is basically just pulling the information from your form into CRM. To prevent fake submissions you'll need to add such feature with the tool you built your form with.

 

I hope the above clarifies some of your concerns and please feel free to let us know if you have any further questions on this.