topic Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse? in Lists, Lead Scoring & Workflows

Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

KStrong37 — Mon, 02 Oct 2023 16:09:40 GMT

Over the past half a year or so, I've stepped away from actively managing our organization's automations, because everything is working.

Every month or two, when I pop in to check up on things, the interface is worse.

First there was the terrible font adjustment which nobody liked - the platform feels like a kindergarten cafeteria menu.
Next there was more clutter with baubles and buttons added to the corners of the screen.
The folder management system was totally scrambled and requires extra clicks and loading time just to navigate to what was inherently available and ready to view previously.
The active working window was then randomly swapped from right to left.
Numerous changes were made to each workflow step, adding more text and reducing the concise readability of workflows.
Most recently, we now have random JPEGs in the corner of each workflow action, a needless "ready" button beneath every title (I would sure hope it's "ready", it's an automation...), and a bunch of action icons and options under every action.

It looks like a complete mess. I get sensory overload just opening a simple workflow now, much less a complicated series of branching actions.

It's the opposite in some cases as well - critical information in branching paths is now concealed and not visible at a glance, requiring each individual action to be clicked on to reveal its contents. So the important information is hidden, and the visual clutter is prioritized. Are you serious? Who is testing and approving this?

I don't even know if I'd be able to do my job now if a workflow needed an update, because the interface looks so alien compared to what I used to originally configure it.

All of these updates should be optional, and we should have more flexibility to customize how the interface looks by enabling or disabling all of these new elements.

At this point, it's not about visual appeal, it's about the functional readability of more complicated workflows at a glance, and being able to quickly scan series of actions in a concise, legible way.

If we aren't given any agency over how the interface operates and these updates continue, all I can say is, if our organization ever suggests hopping platforms, I'd be the first to advocate for it.

Whoever's heading UI design has browned the bedsheets - this platform presents nothing but incrementally higher levels of disappointment with every new needless interface adjustment that comes out.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

KStrong37 — Mon, 02 Oct 2023 16:18:11 GMT

As just one example of how negative messing with the UI is, each of these branching paths used to show which deal stage the automation path would follow. There are dozens of these branching paths in the workflow.

The only way to see which deal stage is associated with the branch now is to click on every single individual branch to see the information. This is a CRIPPLING VISUAL DESIGN FLAW that will cost automation managers hours worth of time.

Stop ruining your own platform with needless changes. Nobody asked for this.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

auto-mate — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 13:48:18 GMT

Use the feedback form about the beta in the bottom left.

For me the worst thing is no preview of the filter/branch i.e. I can no longer see basics like "country X" unless I name the branch. And in the old interafce you could see multiple email notification recipients - now it's hidden. I left the beta immediately. unusable for me!

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

KStrong37 — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 07:28:23 GMT

The trouble is that for companies like HubSpot, "beta" usually just means "get ready because we're going to force you to use this whether you like it or not" - and there doesn't appear to be that much vocal pushback against the latest changes.

Even when the platform's font selection was rejected by a large number of people, HubSpot still went ahead and pushed it anyways - so it seems like we're going to be stuck with this awful UI.

Moving CRMs is a huge multi-month pain, but it's getting pretty close to the point where doing so might be better than being subjected to these terrible updates month over month.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

auto-mate — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 07:58:58 GMT

I have a Hubspot growth specialist (upseller) meeting tomorrow and this will be first on the list.

The current workflows beta would be crippling for me and cause a lot of extra work with change management.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

BérangèreL — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 13:20:10 GMT

Hi @KStrong37, @auto-mate,

Thank you for posting on the Community and for your valuable Product Feedback!

Is your feedback about the Lead-based workflow in Beta or generally for workflows, please?

I encourage you to post this idea on our Ideas Forum here.

I'd recommend supporting the Idea with an upvote and explaining your use case in the comments.

Our product team uses that forum to collect ideas on how we can improve the product for our customers.

Product pays particular attention to the top voted ideas & takes them into consideration along with other feedback channels as well as their own vision to understand what features will be most valuable.

I have also shared it internally to bring more visibility to it.

Thanks!

Best,
Bérangère

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

auto-mate — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 05:43:10 GMT

Hi, I've already given feedback through the beta tool. I think this has to be your team's job to gather feedback about the beta. It's too much work for me to do this for you. I am not requesting a new feature. It's not an "idea".

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

karstenkoehler — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:01:02 GMT

I agree with some of the points made in this thread – mainly the fact that a lot of tool actions that have so far been accessible through one click or at a glance now require additional steps.

(Workflow actions stored in the left sidebar under collapsible sections, one additional click to get to an action via clicking/expanding. Branches now hide criteria, requiring an additional click to either show a preview pane or to open the left sidebar.)

I'm not sure whether a HubSpot Ideas thread would work here, @BérangèreL, as the product team likely moves faster than a respective thread could gain traction? I've tried to aggressively promote HubSpot Ideas before but the timeline is typically months and I'd assume the new workflow interface is scheduled to move out of beta much faster than that.

Wonder how others feel about this. @danmoyle @Jnix284 @TomM2 @Ben_M?

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

BérangèreL — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:14:09 GMT

Hi @auto-mate and @karstenkoehler,

I hope that you are well! Thank you for your posts.

Yes, that's right, if it is regarding the Beta, then the feedback in the Beta tool is the best option and you did right to do so. If it is regarding workflows in general, then the Ideas' forum would be the way to go.

I have already submitted myself the feedback to the Team, and I will share the additional feedback you just submitted.

Please be sure that the Team is actively looking at all the valuable feedback you and other members are giving.

Thank you!

Best,
Bérangère

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

danmoyle — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 11:47:09 GMT

Thanks fo rthe tag @karstenkoehler.

I love that HubSpot "allows" us users to offer our thoughts like this without deleting or burying the feedback. I know personally that I've been able to have conversations with product managers and teams across various HubSpot tools, and they do take our feedback seriously. It may not always feel like it because it's become a large enterprise, and because yes @KStrong37 as you mention companies like HubSpot roll out changes when and how they want to (and we don't really have a choice - thanks Apple). But I can tell you the humans there do care.

With that said, I agree that the workflow tool in particular has become a bit of a mess. I don't love the changes in the trigger criteria or the branches, and how we choose filters now is a multi-step process instead of simple steps. I'm not to the side of leaving or suggesting different platforms, as I still see HubSpot as the leader un UI when it comes to CRM and automation. But it's definietly not perfect.

I also sometimes personally feel like the "get off my lawn" old guy (been a HubSpot user since 2010 and I'm a solid GenX) when changes are coming fast & furious, and some of them seem like changes just for change sake. But the terrible cliche I despise comes to mind: It is what it is.

My advice is to definitely continue to offer the feedback. The Ideas forum is a decent place to start, but as @karstenkoehler mentioned it can feel glacial in its speed. Hopefully a product manager can get tagged here and see the feedback and reach out directly. They're definitely open to hearing our user experience.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

TomM2 — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:33:42 GMT

As someone who's spent probablys 100s of hours inside workflows, and I remember the days of non-visual grey boxes. I have to say, I'm also finding them increasingly difficult and overwhelming from a UI perspective. I'm glad to hear it's not just me though.

I feel like every week there's a new step added into something I'm trying to do in it, the amount of times I've selected an object for a filter or action, began typing a property value only to see no results because I haven't clicked "object properties".

It's great to see things like values and events being broken down so granular, but in reality I often fail to see the use case, or even the differences. I always find myself just choosing the middle option when setting up branching baths and to be honest, all 3 look basically the same to me.

It's strange because while it feels like there's so much more being added to workflows, I feel like a lot of functionality is also being stripped quietly. There's certain filters I'm not seeing anymore, there's filters that exist in lists and reports but not in workflows.

Overall some amazing new updates, but I'm finding myself clicking around looking for the right option more than ever these days.

Also Lol @ browned the bedsheets

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

Jnix284 — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:49:23 GMT

Happy to share some thoughts here too, thanks for the tag @karstenkoehler.

I also agree with most points - unfortunately, the workflow experience is much worse now than it was before.

The first time the sidebar opened on the left instead of the right, I thought I broke something. I have created multiple filters and criteria, only to click away and lose everything because they added a new subtle save button in the upper right and made it blue so it blends in.

I don't like that everything is collapsed and I can't see what's going on at a glance, and the new "mini-map" view seems useless to me.

With a major change like this, I would hope that the Product Team might consider providing a few customization settings to make some of these features optional.

I'm not sure what they are solving for with these changes, it would be really nice to have additional insight so we can understand how to better take advantage of these changes - and to provide constructive feedback about our use cases to share why it is ineffective for us.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

jbartola — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 15:02:03 GMT

Hi all, I'm a lead on the on the Workflows team-

I wanted to pop in and say we definitely hear your frustration here, and our product team is aware of your feedback. We are actively working on ways to address this and improve the Workflows experience. Our apologies for any inconveniences these recent changes may have caused.

Best,

Jesse

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

danmoyle — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 16:33:34 GMT

Thank you for acknowledging the frustration @jbartola 😊

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

auto-mate — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 09:24:42 GMT

Absolutely same - ten years with HS workflows - same experience here.

The genius of Hubspot marketing is scale. In workflows that means managing large workflows with many branches or multiple similar workflow families. Every click counts in configuration and change management. The number of clicks per change has jumped dramatically with recent filter changes and now inceased exponentially with the UI changes. This is not good for usability, resources and underming the the key USP. IMHO of course.

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

MeganLegge — Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:41:46 GMT

Hi everyone,

My name is Megan Legge and I am a product manager at HubSpot for the workflows tool. Thank you for taking the time to leave detailed feedback about specific changes and why they have created difficulty and confusion for you. Our product team is absolutely listening and your feedback is crucial to us making improvements (which we certainly want to do). There are several different changes mentioned in these threads. I’d like to address the different changes and feedback that’s been raised for each.

Workflows index page (home page)

Last Summer we moved the Workflows list page to the same design system used by most other list pages throughout HubSpot. We are continuing to lean into this approach, and are actively working on a project to bring custom properties to Workflows (this project is currently in development). We are taking this approach to Workflow organization for the following reasons:

To create an organizational system that leverages filters, custom views, and eventually enables workflow reporting by Workflow custom properties.
To enable Workflows to live in multiple views (by combining custom views + custom properties) instead of in a single/flat folder structure.
To create a consistent way of organizing objects throughout the HubSpot platform (contacts, campaigns, emails, workflows, etc.).
With this change we were able to add the highly requested feature of subfolders to the workflows experience.

While we don’t plan on “reverting” the workflow list page to the previous experience, we would like for users to continue to share all thoughts and feedback on the new experience. We have already made several updates based on this feedback, and will continue to track and make additional updates in the future.
Please share all feedback on the Workflows list page and organization experience to Jessica Hartnagle at jhartnagle@hubspot.com

Moving the action panel to the Left side

We moved the workflow action and editing panel to the left side of the page to be aligned with other HubSpot tools. With this move to the left, we’re now repeating the pattern found in Lists, Reporting, Email, Webpages, Social and more, to create a consistent experience for customers. We have no plans to revert this change because we believe a cohesive experience across our tools is important.

Building Triggers

By re-crafting our triggers, we are simplifying the way that customers can create workflows without removing functionality. For instance, a popular use case has always been the ability to trigger a workflow when a property value changes. Before you could hack this with certain filters, but now you can simply select the "property value changed" event trigger to automatically trigger when the property is updated. It also allowed us to add several other new trigger types, like ones for new object types, custom behavioral event triggers and webhook triggers (now in beta). In addition to providing new types of triggers, we’re trying to bring clarity to things like re-enrollment. Please continue to provide feedback on how we can make the triggers UI even stronger, this is an area in which we want to continue to invest and iterate in the future. If you specifically would like to give more feedback about workflow triggers, please reach out to product manager Sierra Howard at showard@hubspot.com.

Building Filters

Like the move of the action panel to the left, the filtering process in workflows has been updated to mirror the filtering process of the Lists and Reporting tools to create a consistent experience and feature parity. The updated filter UI also brings many new filter categories to workflows that had previously only been available in the lists tool, for example marketing event and custom behavioral event filtering and associated ticket record properties filtering. Adopting the same filtering system as lists means that workflows will now get all the new filter features that are launched, for example relative date filtering which is coming soon. This change is out to all customers, and our team is continuing to gather feedback. The given examples around clickiness and button placement are helpful and will be considered for future improvements.

Reorganized action panel, Action card UI changes, Branching changes

One of the more obvious UI changes that a lot of comments in this thread are about is the UI changes of the action selection panel picker, the action cards within the workflow itself and the overall layout. To give context, these changes are in beta to a small percentage of customers and we are actively collecting feedback and making regular updates and improvements. We know large UI changes can be interruptive, so made it so this beta can be opted out of at any time, via the options in the lower left hand corner of the workflows tool. Please use that option if you do not want to use this new UI until it is more mature. To dive into some of the components and the reasons behind the changes, read on

We reorganized our actions by function to provide a more structured and searchable list, as the long list of actions was often perceived as overwhelming and unintuitive. We’ve also made it easier to view your connected apps and their actions, along with browsing for other workflow integrations and connecting straight from the workflows app. If you have specific thoughts about how we’re grouping actions and how they could be improved, please let us know.

We changed the action cards themselves and the layout of the cards with a goal of improving clarity and coherence, and reducing the sprawling nature of the previous design. We’ve heard from many of you that we removed too much information from some action cards, and are working through each of those to ensure we add back crucial components, for example we have now made the trigger card show more of the triggers and filters in the card than the previous design did. Before, to see longer triggers you’d have to click “show more” and now we’ve moved that to the “Show details” pop up - so the same amount of clicks (one) but a different display - we’re continuing to monitor feedback here. One reason for these changes is to improve the reliability of the workflows view. In the old world, with the action cards varying in height and changing height with clicks, the UI could be jumpy and shift with card expansion - making it hard to keep track of where you are in the map and also making it difficult to see more of your workflow steps in a single view. We also have greater aspirations for additional context and help content in the “Show details” pop up, for example it could show reporting information, use case examples, or suggestions. We’re continuing to gather feedback here and your specific examples are helpful.

At the same time, some customers feel we’re also now showing too much information, which is leading to overwhelm. For example the “Ready” status is meant to indicate that the action is properly configured and has no errors, however we’ve gotten lots of feedback that it’s confusing and not helpful, so we’re in the process of removing it.

Branches are specifically getting the most varying feedback. We want to make improvements here and are considering several options and would benefit from your input here.

We have also gotten feedback that the overall look is too faint and indistinct, so we are working on an improvement to add more contrast and easier viewing by adding in more color. Again these are all things we want to make better before we roll this change out more widely, and your feedback is crucial to us making those decisions.

I’d be grateful to hear more from those of you that are sharing here on the topic of "Reorganized action panel, Action card UI changes, Branching changes" and welcome you to schedule time with me to discuss your feedback in more detail. I will reach out to each of you that have commented and ask you to book time with me if you want.

In summary, thanks again for all the engagement, we really do want to hear from you and improve.

Best,

Megan Legge

HubSpot Product

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

karstenkoehler — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 08:29:19 GMT

Thank you @MeganLegge for sharing the motivations behind these updates in such detail!

It's great to see the product team reviewing this thread and knowing that the feedback is heard 🙂

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

auto-mate — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 11:20:39 GMT

Megan, thank you very much for this detail, really appreciated. I will take a creful look at the Beta again - especially to see "we have now made the trigger card show more of the triggers and filters in the card than the previous design did".

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

GrantCarlile — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:14:07 GMT

Thanks for bringing up the conversation @KStrong37. I too have had some frustrations with workflows specifically. UI changing sides, removing elements, and housing elements inside containers I had to figure out myself.

One ask that would be huge to natively add is, embed two metrics:

# of objects currently in the step
# of objects moved through the step

With all that being said, I have navigated the updates with as much grace as possible. Sharing with clients the updates as I find them.

The product team is quite responsive as well. Having them available to connect with and speak into possibilities to add to the roadmap is a great feature of HubSpot's culture.

The ideas page is great for things like this too. Then linking and asking for upvotes on common asks of the team.

Thanks again for sharing, for bringing up topics that matter to you, and helping us all improve.

Onward,

Grant

Grant Carlile 🦾 🧰

Operating and building for the past 24 years.

🙃 Like what I said, mark it a solution!

👍🏽 Upvote for the 🧡 love of it 🧡

Re: Why does the workflows interface keep getting worse?

danmoyle — Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:17:22 GMT

@MeganLegge it's so great that you took the time and energy to chime in. I'm with @karstenkoehler on that!

I love how thoughtful HubSpot folks are. Even when I get "get off my lawn" cranky, I really do recognize that a lot of thought and care goes into this all.