topic Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe in GDPR

Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 16:19:25 GMT

I want to send an email to a contact when they subscribe to a particular Email Type.

I've looked at work flows and can set up to do this when the value of the opt-in is Yes or No etc.

But... when a contact is subscribed, the value apears to be null so how can I trigger this follow up email?

Many thanks

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Phil_Vallender — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:03:46 GMT

Hi @stugreen

If I am correct, each email type should have its own subscription form. If you are using these to generate the subscription to the email type then you can use the submission of this form as your workflow trigger.

Does that work in your situation? Or have I missed something?

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:10:39 GMT

Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't see a form for this.

Only the tick box on the HubSpot subscription preferences page.

Then when viewing the contact properties, there is only a value of Yes if Un-subscribed.

I need to trigger the email when a contact Subscribes to the list but Subscribed appears to have a null value when chosen??

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:11:38 GMT

I think the forms you mentionare only for Blogs

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Phil_Vallender — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:58:45 GMT

Hi @stugreen

Yep, you are right.

For 'marketing information' and other custom email types, HubSpot only really has opt out. Meaning any new lead is eligable to receieve those emails but there is no property to say so.

Perhaps, when the contact performs the action that you take to subscribe them you could set the opt-out property to no via workflow. Have you tried that?

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:01:35 GMT

Thanks Phil thats not a bad idea but the only action as far as I can tell is the tick box on the HubSpot preferences page.

I'm not sure how I can capture that action.

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Phil_Vallender — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 18:15:11 GMT

Hi @stugreen

Hmm, yes, I think that's becuase HubSpot, as it stands today, doenst really support subscription to email types other than blog digests. The concept is that leads who convert on forms are eligable to receive those emails automatically until they opt out.

The solution may lie in understanding where the contacts that are subscribing are originating from? Are they converting on a form or are you importing them into the database and then trying to get them to 'subscribe'?

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 18:30:19 GMT

The process is the contacts will visit the HubSpot email preferences page and then opt in to the the email types we present.

For one or two of those we want to send a kick back email to encourage them to sign up to other emails of a similar type.

For example, the main opt in would be Events.

We want this rather than have a whole long list of specific event types on the HubSpot email preferences page (which isnt editable in terms of layout of the email types).

We'll direct them in the kick back to a form where they can chose more email types if they want.

Do you know if theres a subscription list I can query for each of my email types?
So if a contact is enrolled in the Event type, the wrkflow could then use that.

I'm starting to think I can't automate this and we might just need to do a mail out to all Event subscribers.

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 20:00:21 GMT

I'd have though contacts would need to opt IN to new email types at least going forward otherwise as with our platform, we'd be subscribing 100,000 contacts to an email type they are unaware of until they receive an email !

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Phil_Vallender — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 20:10:50 GMT

Hi @stugreen

Yeah, the way I understand it, this is not really how the HubSpot email platform is built.

Basically, HubSpot does not have a clear opt-in function. Only opt-out.

When a contact is added to your system, they are basically opted in to all email types (i.e they can receive) by default, but they are not automatically subscribed to any automated digest type emails. When the contact visits the email preference page, all email type will be checked already, and all they can do is uncheck to opt out. Which does not achieve what you are looking for.

This is my understanding but I would be interested to know if @shearn and @Josh have any other ideas - guys?

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Josh — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 20:21:45 GMT

Hi @Phil_Vallender,

Smart lists could accomplish this if I am understanding the need. You can create a smart list based a specific variable chosen in a form field and then send the emails only to that smart list. The other thing you might have to set up is another smart list that includes the other variable in the form so that your emails do not send to those individuals.

The tricky part would be if they wanted to opt-out only from that list...it really wouldn't work like that. As @Phil_Vallender mentioned, people aren't opting-in to something specific, therefore they aren't opting out of something specific either.

I hope I'm understanding the situation correctly. 🙂

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 20:32:11 GMT

I guess because this all occured before GDPR then thats that but after the May deadline surely contacts will need to specifically opt IN to new email types?

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 20:54:53 GMT

Hi Josh

Im not sure how that will work. The contacts are all subscribed as soon as we add the email type and the only form involved would be the HubSpot email preferences.

I wonder if a work around coupld be when we add a new email type, we run a workflow to unsubscribe everyone?

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Phil_Vallender — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 20:59:21 GMT

Just regarding GDPR, there will be changes to HubSpot that enable users to comply with GDPR, but this bit may not change much. My understanding is that GDPR only regulates the data processing part of things, not the email marketing permissions. And, there are lots of scenarios where, in the UK at least, you do not need consent in order to send email to someone.

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 21:02:53 GMT

Grrrr. Can't update an opt in through a workflow 😞

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 21:06:49 GMT

Hmmm all a bit confusing with GDPR.

Hubspots GDPR page says the folowing

Consent: What it means..

"She needs to affirmatively opt-in (pre-checked checkboxes aren’t valid). Her filling out a form alone cannot implicitly opt her into everything your company sends."

https://www.hubspot.com/data-privacy/gdpr/product-readiness

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

Phil_Vallender — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 21:25:59 GMT

Oh yeah, GDPR is a total mess and we could spend all day trying to figure out what it really means and be no closer at the end of it.

What HubSpot is doing to enable GDPR compliance on their platform is amazing. But honestly, I think the regulation, and its links to other regulations, is so complicated, that even HubSpot will struggle to convey a set of rules that apply in all cases.

Take the line you quoted from the product readiness page - I do not know that obtaining GDPR consent to process data either equals consent to email, or that the two can be obtained together - because under GDPR consent has to be explicit, unbundled etc.

GDPR states that data processing for direct marketing 'may' be performed under legitimate interests. My take on that is that as long as you meet the other requirements of GDPR and don't do anything else with the data which would result in a failed balancing test, you do not 'need' consent to process data. But, there are other regulations, like PECR in the UK, which dictate when you need consent in order to send electronic communications.

As an EU citizen, for now, the whole thing is rather embarrassing.

All of the above is personal opinion only and does not constitute legal advice

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

shearn — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 09:28:46 GMT

Thanks for the mention @Phil_Vallender

I think you've guys covered everything, so I don't have much to add here.

I've raised the issue of having contacts auto opted-in numerous times to HubSpot and I've received very little response in terms of what changes will be implemented. With GDPR they obviously have to change this practice or the software will be going against everything GDPR stands for.

I'm tasked with creating our organisation's communications preference centre, and I'm totally held up because of the limits to the customisation of it.

In order to get around some of the opt-in requirements of our members, we've gone for the transactional email add-on, and we clearly state that if you become a member you will have to receive specific email types as part of your membership. So, while they're not checking a box on a page, we've instead had to include it in their membership terms. If they wish to opt out, they have to tell us directly and we cannot be held responsible for issues they may encounter.

For any new user who happens to download a booklet, we will have the double opt-in enabled and hopefully, a workable communication preference centre will be up and running allowing them to choose their email preferences.

Best of luck!

Re: Workflow to send an email on subscribe

stugreen — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 10:03:31 GMT

Yeah I went down the route of creating a bespoke preferenves page uing the API only to find the API will only alllow opt-outs so had to abandon it and use HubSpots.

Thanks for the help Phil